{"id":1524,"date":"2019-11-12T22:54:53","date_gmt":"2019-11-13T04:54:53","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/www.tameri.com\/wordpress\/autisticme\/?p=1524"},"modified":"2023-11-26T16:28:40","modified_gmt":"2023-11-26T22:28:40","slug":"podcast-episode-033-difficulties-sleeping","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.tameri.com\/autisticme\/2019\/11\/12\/podcast-episode-033-difficulties-sleeping\/","title":{"rendered":"Podcast Episode 033 &#8211; Difficulties Sleeping"},"content":{"rendered":"<p><em>Podcast Episode 0033; Season 03, Episode 05; November 12, 2019<\/em><\/p>\n<p>Getting to sleep and staying asleep are difficult for me and many autistics. Our daughters also struggle to fall asleep; they don&#8217;t remain asleep, either. We&#8217;ve tried melatonin, relaxation techniques, and quiet bedtime routines.\u00a0A parent asked me for advice, but I&#8217;m still trying to find my own solution to the challenges of sleep.<\/p>\n\n<!-- iframe plugin v.6.0 wordpress.org\/plugins\/iframe\/ -->\n<iframe loading=\"lazy\" style=\"border: none\" src=\"\/\/html5-player.libsyn.com\/embed\/episode\/id\/12154928\/height\/90\/theme\/custom\/thumbnail\/yes\/direction\/backward\/render-playlist\/no\/custom-color\/336699\/\" height=\"90\" width=\"100%\" scrolling=\"no\" 0=\"allowfullscreen\" 1=\"webkitallowfullscreen\" 2=\"mozallowfullscreen\" 3=\"oallowfullscreen\" 4=\"msallowfullscreen\" class=\"iframe-class\" frameborder=\"0\"><\/iframe>\n\n<h3><span style=\"font-size: 18.0pt;line-height: 115%\">Transcript (lightly edited)<\/span><\/h3>\n<p><b>Scott: <\/b>Hello, and welcome to <em><strong>The Autistic Me Podcast<\/strong><\/em>. Hi, I\u2019m Christopher Scott Wyatt speaking as The Autistic Me.<\/p>\n<p>A parent emailed and asked how well I sleep. I believe that\u2019s\u00a0a common question among parents and caregivers of autistics. I also know that\u00a0autistic adults with whom I communicate share my frustrations with the\u00a0nighttime and sleep.<\/p>\n<p>[00:00:35] Unfortunately, my answer to. \u201cHow well do you\u00a0sleep?\u201d is not what the parent wanted to hear.<\/p>\n<p>I do not and have not ever slept well.<\/p>\n<p>My mother can verify that I did not sleep well as an infant,\u00a0toddler, child, young adult, et cetera. I have struggled with sleep my entire\u00a0life and I have tried every solution proposed by friends, family, and experts.<\/p>\n<p>[00:01:05] I can go through those and explain that none of them\u00a0worked and why I continued to try. Sleep is essential, obviously, for working a\u00a0normal job, eight to five or nine to five, in the business place. It is also<br \/>\nessential for someone like myself who teaches, even though the schedule might\u00a0not be eight to five. It still helps to be awake and ready to function no\u00a0matter when your classes are scheduled during the day or early evening. Without\u00a0sleep, you tend to be easily agitated and more on edge.<\/p>\n<p>[00:01:43] The lack of sleep can exacerbate sensory\u00a0overload. It certainly affects someone\u2019s mood, and I know it affects my ability\u00a0to concentrate and work on problems.<\/p>\n<p>So, knowing that I have never slept well, I have always\u00a0wanted to try various suggestions to find that magical solution. I don\u2019t\u00a0clearly recall all of the things attempted as a child and young adult.<\/p>\n<p>[00:02:15] I do know that I would read or listen to the\u00a0radio well into the night in junior high and high school. When I had access to\u00a0a computer at home, I would use the computer and write. I have also frequently\u00a0sat at a desk with a pencil and paper to write late into the night. Or even [when]\u00a0I wake up during the night, I will sometimes go back to writing.<\/p>\n<p>[00:02:39] In fact, recently I wrote a ten-page story based\u00a0on a suggestion of our six-year-old. And I did that between midnight and two or\u00a0three in the morning. This has always been a problem for me and, unfortunately,\u00a0I see this same insomnia in our youngest daughter, the six-year-old. She does\u00a0struggle to stay asleep even if she falls asleep on time.<\/p>\n<p>[00:03:04] For me, the battle has been both getting to sleep\u00a0and staying asleep.<\/p>\n<p>I am a light sleeper and, unfortunately, that means traffic\u00a0noise and, locally, the noise of trains will awaken me. Growing up, I could\u00a0hear the trains in our hometown of Ivanhoe, California. And before that we\u00a0lived in Bakersfield. And again, we were near a freeway and a rail line, so I\u00a0could hear those.<\/p>\n<p>[00:03:30] I know that most recently we lived in Western\u00a0Pennsylvania and the rail line was at least five miles away \u2014 and I still heard\u00a0it. More interestingly, I could also feel it, which I know annoys my wife quite<br \/>\na bit. Our Western PA home also ended up near a fracking site, and a fracking\u00a0well causes vibrations and a low hum and that would affect my sleep.<\/p>\n<p>[00:03:56] It was quite loud at some times, and because our\u00a0foundation and basement walls were concrete, they would vibrate at a particular\u00a0frequency and I could feel that throughout the night.<\/p>\n<p>I don\u2019t know why things seem worse at night. It might be\u00a0because there\u2019s less white noise and other noise around.<\/p>\n<p>[00:04:19] But, definitely, at night, the sounds from the\u00a0fracking, road noise, trains, airplanes and other things, do seem much louder\u00a0to me, and I know that that\u2019s a common perception by all humans. So, as we have\u00a0less input, the input we do have seems exaggerated.<\/p>\n<p>Locally, now that we live in Texas, the trains at night are\u00a0a serious problem for me.<\/p>\n<p>[00:04:47] The train is approximately a mile and a half\u00a0away, and yet the horn and the sounds of the crossing gates and other safety\u00a0issues also add to the noise of the running train. So, we have the horn being\u00a0blasted in the required safety pattern, which is a number of long and short in\u00a0sounds to warn that they are approaching the track crossing.<\/p>\n<p>[00:05:13] The trains are very long. My oldest daughter and\u00a0I have counted well over 120 cars on some of the trains. They also frequently\u00a0have six or more engines. These are very large trains, hauling limestone, auto parts,\u00a0steel rails, and other heavy equipment. And so the vibration seems all the more\u00a0exaggerated.<\/p>\n<p>[00:05:38] At night, I will wake up to the sound of the\u00a0horns and I will sometimes wake up to the sounds of the nearby expressway. And\u00a0again, when I say nearby, I don\u2019t mean that we live next to the tollway and<br \/>\nexpressway. It is a distance away. But it\u2019s close enough that it bothers me.<\/p>\n<p>This leads back to the question of what have I tried to\u00a0overcome the challenges, both going to sleep and staying asleep.<\/p>\n<p>[00:06:01] I have tried melatonin and other medications\u00a0prescribed by doctors. The melatonin was over the counter, the other\u00a0medications have been prescriptions. Those did not work. I continued to\u00a0struggle staying asleep, even if I could fall asleep.<\/p>\n<p>[00:06:23] I have found that painkillers for my back and other\u00a0challenges that I have, including the shoulder pain and neck pain, the\u00a0medications, the painkillers, can sometimes help me get to sleep\u2026 because the\u00a0pain is intense.<\/p>\n<p>I do have a pinched nerve in my lower back. I do have\u00a0scoliosis. I also have Erb\u2013Duchenne palsy, which causes some pain in my upper\u00a0brachial plexus area.<\/p>\n<p>[00:06:50] So, painkillers can help, especially the\u00a0acetaminophen PM, which is Tylenol PM.<\/p>\n<p>But, I don\u2019t remain asleep with those medications.<\/p>\n<p>Staying asleep.<\/p>\n<p>I have tried white noise. I have tried music, particularly\u00a0classical music. I have tried nature sounds over the years. I developed the\u00a0habit of listening to old time radio shows, which helps create just enough\u00a0white noise and ambient sounds that it\u2019s like daytime and I can sleep a little\u00a0bit better.<\/p>\n<p>[00:07:22] More recently, I have tried podcasts and audio\u00a0books, but I find that I want to follow the audio book, so probably not the\u00a0best choice as I want to know how a chapter ends.<\/p>\n<p>I have tried reading again, but reading is not as effective\u00a0as I might hope. I don\u2019t find myself falling asleep as my wife might, or my\u00a0children.<\/p>\n<p>[00:07:44] Most people read and get drowsy, as where I read\u00a0and I want to keep reading until I finish. And I don\u2019t know if that\u2019s common or\u00a0not, but clearly not a good coping strategy. If you have problems getting to<br \/>\nsleep and staying asleep, anything that not only requires attention, but\u00a0actually heightens your attention, is not a good approach.<\/p>\n<p>[00:08:04] I currently try to exercise both in the mornings\u00a0and at night. I have an exercise bike that I ride six and a half to eight miles\u00a0in the morning and six and a half to eight miles at night. That\u2019s a 30-minute\u00a0ride in the hill climb mode. Unfortunately, it doesn\u2019t put me to sleep. And if\u00a0anything, it wakes me up in the morning. And after riding at night, I take a\u00a0shower and I\u2019m wide awake again.<\/p>\n<p>[00:08:29] Maybe a couple of hours before bed would be a better\u00a0approach, but with the children, the children need to be in bed before we\u00a0really have a chance to do anything else.<\/p>\n<p>Teaching, I was putting in more than 20,000 steps at the\u00a0university. Well, teaching in a public school, you\u2019re not as mobile as you are\u00a0at a college campus.<\/p>\n<p>[00:08:51] The campuses tend to be self-contained, so I\u00a0quickly discovered that my step count was much lower on a K-12 campus, too.<\/p>\n<p>I don\u2019t know if the exercise change matters because I didn\u2019t\u00a0sleep any better when I was getting the 15 to 20,000 steps versus getting 10 to\u00a015,000 steps in, per day. I wish that exercise helped me more and I\u2019ve tried to\u00a0come up with a routine that would help, but I have yet to find that.<\/p>\n<p>I have resorted in the past to trying things like chamomile\u00a0tea.<\/p>\n<p>[00:09:23] I was told that \u201csleepy time\u201d tea would help.\u00a0Unfortunately, it didn\u2019t, though I love tea and I drink it throughout the day. Sleepy\u00a0time tea did not help me sleep.<\/p>\n<p>I have tried lavender soaps and bubble baths. I was told\u00a0that chamomile and lavender would help me relax and sleep. Soothing. I\u00a0certainly like the bath, but it did not help me sleep.<\/p>\n<p>[00:09:46] I have tried sleeping in the guestroom, which is,\u00a0in theory, darker and quieter than the master bed, but I don\u2019t sleep any better\u00a0when I am in a different room from my wife and the pets. My wife has two cats\u00a0that really like to cuddle up, and, unfortunately, they don\u2019t help or hurt.<\/p>\n<p>[00:10:09] I guess it\u2019s not really unfortunate, it\u2019s just\u00a0they don\u2019t seem to have an effect. As where, I would argue that when the cats\u00a0cuddle up with the kids, it makes the kids feel safe and they fall asleep, just<br \/>\nlike hugging a stuffed animal.<\/p>\n<p>So, unfortunately, my answer to \u201cHow well do I sleep?\u201d is \u201cNot\u00a0very well.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>And in terms of suggestions, I don\u2019t have many good ones.<\/p>\n<p>[00:10:31] As I said, if you made a checklist, I have gone\u00a0through that checklist of sleep ideas and suggestions. My physicians over the\u00a0years have offered a number of insights into why this could be. The most common\u00a0thing that they go back to is hypervigilance or sensory sensitivity, because it\u2019s\u00a0not just the sound of the railroad, but the actual vibration, and it wasn\u2019t\u00a0just the sound of the fracking, but the vibration.<\/p>\n<p>[00:10:58] There is no way to easily mask that sort of sensory input. Unfortunately, there\u2019s no solution to that that wouldn\u2019t have\u00a0horrible side effects.<\/p>\n<p>Some of the autistics I know are using prescription sleep aids.\u00a0I found that they actually had an adverse effect on me and caused me to feel\u00a0queasy and shaky.<\/p>\n<p>[00:11:25] The best way I could explain it is as if someone\u00a0else had a high dose of caffeine or another stimulant. So for me, the sleep aids\u00a0left me agitated and shaky, which is not a feeling that I want or desire. As<br \/>\nyou might expect, having gone through this experience for 50 years, it is\u00a0something I\u2019m acutely aware of.<\/p>\n<p>[00:11:52] In terms of my daughter, I don\u2019t want our\u00a0youngest daughter to go through what I go through, which is this lack of sleep.\u00a0I worry about her and I worry about her future in terms of getting a good night\u2019s<br \/>\nsleep and being functional during the day.<\/p>\n<p>I wish that I had the ability as a parent to find out what\u00a0will work for her. And so far, working with her doctors, we haven\u2019t found the\u00a0ideal solution for sleeping through the night.<\/p>\n<p>[00:12:20] We have found that getting her to sleep\u2026 for her,\u00a0the sleepy time teas combined with a basic melatonin over-the-counter\u00a0[chewable] is somewhat effective.<\/p>\n<p>I understand that the parent asking me for advice is in the\u00a0same situation that I\u2019m in. We have children. We want them to sleep and perform\u00a0well in school.<\/p>\n<p>[00:12:40] We want them to be rested and active during the\u00a0day so they can be at their best. I know I am not always at my best because of\u00a0my insomnia and poor sleep habits. I do not wish this upon any child or any<br \/>\nadult. I encourage the parent asking me to work with their physician. I\u00a0encourage seeking expert help \u2014 and I am not an expert.<\/p>\n<p>[00:13:06] I also wanted to caution that parent and others\u00a0that you may not find a solution.<\/p>\n<p>I know that that is a frustrating answer to hear. We all\u00a0want to solve problems and when there isn\u2019t a solution, it is disappointing and\u00a0frustrating. When you are searching for that solution for your own child, it<br \/>\nfeels heartbreaking.<\/p>\n<p>[00:13:33] It feels like you\u2019re failing your child, that you\u2019re\u00a0not providing the best you can as a parent.<\/p>\n<p>Take from this podcast, that you might not be able to\u00a0address the issue and do your best to provide a quiet, safe space for the child\u00a0having problems sleeping or the young adult having problems. Experiment with\u00a0the white noise, experiment with nightlights or projection lights, whatever\u00a0might help the individual feel safe and secure.<\/p>\n<p>[00:14:02] Experiment with white noise, nature sounds, and\u00a0music. Experiment with workout routines.<\/p>\n<p>The best I can offer is try everything until you find\u00a0something that might not solve the problem, but [still] reduce the problem.<\/p>\n<p>[00:14:20] For me, the listening to old time radio where I\u00a0know many of the episodes and it\u2019s really just the sound of talking and the\u00a0sound effects, making it feel like daytime. OTR provides just enough ambient<br \/>\nnoise that I at least eventually fall asleep. I appreciate that my wife\u00a0tolerates that background noise.<\/p>\n<p>She can sleep through the train. She can sleep through the\u00a0fracking.<\/p>\n<p>[00:14:50] She slept well when we lived in an urban setting.\u00a0And she sleeps well here in our semi-rural setting of Texas. She\u2026 she sleeps\u00a0anywhere! It\u2019s unbelievable to me. She can sleep on an airplane, in a car, she\u00a0can sleep in a chair.<\/p>\n<p>I need\u2026 I don\u2019t know what I need. Obviously. That\u2019s the\u00a0whole point of this podcast.<\/p>\n<p>[00:15:12] I don\u2019t know what I need to sleep, but I\u2019m not\u00a0going to stop looking for it.<\/p>\n<p>To that parent who asked, I wish you all the best and I hope\u00a0that you are able to find the solution for your autistic child. I hope your\u00a0physician is able to guide you in the right direction.<\/p>\n<p>I will say that, again, for our littlest one, the over the\u00a0counter melatonin in a higher dosage than we had started with, but that\u2019s okay,\u00a0the over the counter melatonin paired with the sleepy time tea does seem to be\u00a0working with getting to sleep.<\/p>\n<p>Now we are going to be hoping that she starts to sleep\u00a0throughout the night.<\/p>\n<p>This has been <em><strong>The Autistic Me Podcast<\/strong><\/em>. I am Christopher\u00a0Scott Wyatt, and I appreciate you listening to this and future episodes.<\/p>\n<p>[00:15:59] Remember that we are on Facebook. My wife and I\u00a0monitor The Autistic Me on Facebook, @AutisticMe on Twitter, and, of course, we\u00a0have The Autistic Me blog, which is easy to find using Google or Bing.<\/p>\n<p>Thank you for listening and I look forward to our next\u00a0meeting.<\/p>\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/www.tameri.com\/autisticme\/\">https:\/\/www.tameri.com\/autisticme\/<\/a><\/p>\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/autisticme\/\">https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/autisticme\/<\/a><\/p>\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/twitter.com\/autisticme\">https:\/\/twitter.com\/autisticme<\/a><\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Podcast Episode 0033; Season 03, Episode 05; November 12, 2019 Getting to sleep and staying asleep are difficult for me and many autistics. Our daughters also struggle to fall asleep; they don&#8217;t remain asleep, either. We&#8217;ve tried melatonin, relaxation techniques, and quiet bedtime routines.\u00a0A parent asked me for advice, but&#8230;<\/p>\n<div class=\"more-link-wrapper\"><a class=\"more-link\" href=\"https:\/\/www.tameri.com\/autisticme\/2019\/11\/12\/podcast-episode-033-difficulties-sleeping\/\">Continue Reading<span class=\"screen-reader-text\">Podcast Episode 033 &#8211; Difficulties Sleeping<\/span> <i class=\"fas fa-angle-right\"><\/i><\/a><\/div>\n","protected":false},"author":7,"featured_media":3458,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"advanced_seo_description":"","jetpack_seo_html_title":"","jetpack_seo_noindex":false,"jetpack_post_was_ever_published":false,"_jetpack_newsletter_access":"","_jetpack_dont_email_post_to_subs":false,"_jetpack_newsletter_tier_id":0,"_jetpack_memberships_contains_paywalled_content":false,"iawp_total_views":15,"_jetpack_memberships_contains_paid_content":false,"footnotes":"","jetpack_publicize_message":"","jetpack_publicize_feature_enabled":true,"jetpack_social_post_already_shared":true,"jetpack_social_options":{"image_generator_settings":{"template":"highway","default_image_id":0,"font":"","enabled":false},"version":2}},"categories":[7,10,13],"tags":[268,336,554,614,616,645],"class_list":["post-1524","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-health","category-podcast","category-writing","tag-exhaustion","tag-health","tag-podcast","tag-schedules","tag-school","tag-sleep","entry"],"jetpack_publicize_connections":[],"jetpack_featured_media_url":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/www.tameri.com\/autisticme\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/5\/2023\/11\/Podcast_Banner_800x400.png?fit=711%2C400&ssl=1","jetpack-related-posts":[],"jetpack_sharing_enabled":true,"jetpack_likes_enabled":true,"jetpack_shortlink":"https:\/\/wp.me\/pfivLC-oA","_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.tameri.com\/autisticme\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/1524","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.tameri.com\/autisticme\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.tameri.com\/autisticme\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.tameri.com\/autisticme\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/7"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.tameri.com\/autisticme\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=1524"}],"version-history":[{"count":1,"href":"https:\/\/www.tameri.com\/autisticme\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/1524\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":3628,"href":"https:\/\/www.tameri.com\/autisticme\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/1524\/revisions\/3628"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.tameri.com\/autisticme\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/3458"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.tameri.com\/autisticme\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=1524"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.tameri.com\/autisticme\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=1524"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.tameri.com\/autisticme\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=1524"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}